CS Thread Repost: Science or Web Site Evidence and Propaganda's Ability to Prolong the Argument

 Re: SilverLungs Generator    BrightSideOfLife  4d

This is just it IMO. Testing in a petri dish and showing that ionic silver is faster and more effective than elemental silver ie MesoSilver has been done. Using HCl with both showing that ionic silver was faster at killing pathogens however this does not take into account the ionization of elemental silver and it's more prolonged action inside the body. Ionic silver is the active component and Elemental silver needs to be ionized which takes time which is what makes it slower. The reviewers use this as "evidence" that ionic is the most effective, probably to support ionic silver generator makers. My experiences of elemental particulate CS has been fairly effective when used in the stomach, considerably better than ionic silver which took considerably larger amounts and the effect did not last long. Whereas the elemental Particulate CS lasted for hours. However that was only comparing one brand of each of Elemental vs ionic. I think that I might of come across the research that the SilverTron guy used to come to his opinions on ionic silver and it's dangers. I have mislaid the link somewhere as I have 750 tabs open ATM. lol When I have more time I will look for it. I do not have time now as I am attempting to get the parts to build a basic generator so that I do not need to keep buying the stuff and I am close to being out of CS. So far it has not been 100% effective so I do not even know whether the bacteria responsible are vulnerable to silver. Elemental silver did eliminate part of biofilm and infection is still active. Several others have not been affected at all!    I have put some questions to him which I need an answer to before I begin building that one as it will take time and money to build. Unless the current can be set low then I will not bother. He did mention that the current was limited to 10mA max and there is a knob to control the speed which I assume means current but I do need some confirmation on that and the lowest settable current. It's fairly decent but only if it allows the current to be limited sufficiently. ATM I do not know whether it can do that.   BTW Steve is your expert grizz, he is not mine as I do not accept him. Anyone can write a book, it means nothing IMO. Add To Favorites! Your reply: Reply   CK   FCK   TinyMCE

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  • Re: SilverLungs Generator    BrightSideOfLife  4d

    Esstee has already mentioned the limitations on using resistors and how it lowers the voltage to the electrodes due to the voltage drop across the resistors/potentiometers. My view on Steve is the same as shared by Dquixote1217. His information is unreliable an inaccurate and self serving. I do not agree with anything he says. He is your chosen so called expert. There are people on this forum who disagree with that choice, therefore using the term "our" is as accurate and reliable as Steve's advice IMO. Add To Favorites! Your reply: Reply   CK   FCK   TinyMCE

    • Re: SilverLungs Generator    grizz  4d

      We can agree to disagree about Steve Barwick. Who exactly is your Expert that is better than Steve? I am willing to look and give him a chance. Grizz Add To Favorites! Your reply: Reply   CK   FCK   TinyMCE

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        • Re: SilverLungs Generator    grizz  4d

          You are better off running at LESS than max current to get smaller particle size, I have a 1 ounce bar and I am only using 2 milliamps on my Silvertron Elite generator. A 1 oz bar allows me to use 15 milliamps for max speed. I just finished another gallon today that took 24 hours at 2 milliamps, but this batch is PERFECT. The laser light can barely be seen in a dark room, yet it is 20ppm. I am thrilled with the Elite. Grizz Add To Favorites! Your reply: Reply   CK   FCK   TinyMCE

        • Re: SilverLungs Generator    grizz  3d

          Bright,   I have also posted your SilverMax generator under a new heading of "DIY Silver Generator Projects" Many thanks for your help in finding this diamond in the haystack. Check it out to see if it meets with your approval. Also keep in mind that my original offer stands. If you can find a better expert on Colloidal Silver than Steve Barwick, then give me his name and I will be happy to quote from him in our documents. We demand the TRUTH, the WHOLE TRUTH and NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH from our chosen experts. So far, only Steve Barwick has passed these strict requirements with his research. My BS detector is extremely sensitive and if I catch him in a single lie, he is disqualified. I cannot tolerate the BS surround Colloidal Silver and there will be NO BS found in my documents. Tell your friends at the Colloidal Silver websites that I would like to see more honesty in the products that they sell. There are only 2 kinds of silver being sold. 1) Ionic Silver 2) Particulate Silver Websites & labels should be easy to determine what is being sold. Best to you, Grizz Add To Favorites! Your reply: Reply   CK   FCK   TinyMCE

       
    • Re: SilverLungs Generator    vairagi  4d

      We arent relying on Steve Barwick but on the research he has accumulated over the years and which are linked at his site. Yeah of course our understanding has nothing to do with the person SB. Nothing to do with his opinion at all. It is funny how the two sides seem to make it personal when its about the truth vs the false. DQ has been deluded in his thinking by business interests who have built their economies on inefficient products now being left behind, like buggy whips and beaver hats. Add To Favorites! Your reply: Reply   CK   FCK   TinyMCE

      • Re: Arguing    vairagi  4d

        Arguing can be fun. It can be relieving to focus, concentrate and discern what it is we at really tryint to get across. But after its all said and done, the meaning is soon forgotten and hopefully any animosity as well. Theres really only a small importance to argue about in this topic. Both Silvers can help us. But we do love to argue. Since we have Ozone O3, Hydrogen Peroxide H2O2, Silver(Ironic of course), MMS , lyposomal Vit C, and other oxidisers to antibioticise any organisms troubling us. If one doesnt work we need only try another. And if after trying all of them we still suffer, our attempts will hopefully fuel our further investigation into our systems and their functions needs ect so that eventually not only do we find our answer but we find something to help someone else avoid the extra time we spent. Add To Favorites! Your reply: Reply   CK   FCK   TinyMCE

 

Research Evidence VS Business Opinion    vairagi  4d

The Ionic as actually antibiotic vs Regular silver's non antibiotic quality is beyond serious question and based on research, in vitro and in vivo. Some have been referred to and been posted and are easily procured online if anyone cares to read them. (even if we only consider the in vitro study using HCL, the results are damming for Regular non Ionic Silver's efficacy). Link the research document that shows that Ionic silver transforms upon ingestion as you describe,(or is it an extrapolation by someone who thinks they already know enough about biology and not in need of proof, which isn't good Science if you know what I mean. There are lots of books with extrapolations based on no research that many consider, unwittingly, truth), and we can go from there to how every nutrient or mineral ion particle you ingest or create by digestive processing would be unable to proceed to its intended biological target, if it were as you claim. Anyone's faith regarding the realities in this topic is irrelevant and mentioning that only shows the lack of discernment you or they are choosing to use. And since all ionic, and most(unless flocculated (mud as Gris says) regular silver waters are colloidal, the use of the term as exclusive is to confuse or demean. The "research he goes by"? Are you saying the Silverton owner has another source of research documentation, differing from that which we have been reading? If so, we would very much want to see it, because ultimately we care only about what works best. Or does he do his own, comparable to institutional scientific research, research, which he considers more reliable? Does that sound credible? If so what are his research discoveries, and by what protocols did he reach them? And are you saying that your personal experience is more reliable than an institutions work? Your personal experience? How many trials have you run, and how did you run them? Such that you would come to a conclusion about topical, oral, Regular or Ionic Silver, which is contrary to the past, and most current research on Ionic Silver's supremacy over Regular Silver in having efficacy in both topical and ingestion. I cant see this confusion from "a lot of info in all directions' as you claim. Once we read the research it appears very clear, no matter the business interests that may want to dissuade us from those proofs. Either what we want to think or choose to think, aligns with research fact or it doesn't. We can certainly believe things different to research fact, but if we are going to successfully dispute documented serious research by people having no agenda in the matter, we need do more than just create arguments and claim unproven concepts, and then fall back on how confused things are on the subject. The issue isn't about believing things here, on CZ. Its about using the research papers linked or referred to on CZ. Its not about any CZ or any web site or web site owner, it's about facts revealed by documented research of in vitro and in vivo studies form over many years, continually finding and exacting our understanding, and as I mentioned, there have been murine, human, super indepth scans ect ect studies enough to make the argument you make seem either being that of a business interested party or a person with a skeptic's inability to discern something that has already evident. On the statement, perhaps in error, that the current research opinion is that low V is valuable, is misunderstood. It is the low ampere(current), not the voltage that determines whether the silver ions are blown off in 100nm to 1000 nm particles, or whisper off in a 10 to 20 nm size, down to .08 nm particle, from the silver rod. And if he wants to dispute the importance of the smallest particle size than he is disputing research literature. And if he wants to say that particle size is not defined by low ampere usage than he can show us the TENS photo he has of his experiments, to back up that claim and start a real discussion with the two photos we have of less than and a bit larger nm sized particles from Silver Lungs and from Silver Edge. You say you dont want to be adversarial and you say it takes a lot of research. You say that there are two different sides spreading disinformation. But the facts are that of the two sides to this non argument, because no facts have been shared by the questioning of the research side. One is based on research data and one is opposing that research data with only opinion. Making biological and Science research claims without proof and in the face of evidence to the contrary. Personal research not credible enough to be considered valuable, and term usage designed to distract and demean. Perhaps the real reason why there is this difference of opinion is that the facts, as we know them so far, don't fit someone's needs or beliefs and so that side is trying to perpetuate an argument that is really over and done with. Add To Favorites! Your reply: Reply   CK   FCK   TinyMCE

• Re: Research Evidence VS Business Opinion    MrCuddly  27h

  I don't know what you're referring to when you say "regular silver". If you're referring to preponderately colloidal silver as opposed to ionic - then saying it has no antibiotic properties is absurd. Before antibiotics appeared, colloidal silver was used extensively in hospitals around the world. And particle sizes back then were MUCH larger than they're able to manufacture today. The fact that ionic silver changes chemistry once it hits the digestive tract is stated wherever I've seen research on ionic silver (though the vast majority of studies are on colloidal). That it loses it's effect within seconds ANYWHERE inside the body I've heard by multiple sources too - though that does seem harder to prove. No I don't have a bibliography of everywhere I've researched this information and have no intention of backtracking for the purposes of making one. Believe whatever you find compelling.   Add To Favorites! Your reply: Reply   CK   FCK   TinyMCE

  • Re: Research Evidence VS Business Opinion    grizz  26h

    "The fact that ionic silver changes chemistry once it hits the digestive tract is stated wherever I've seen research on ionic silver (though the vast majority of studies are on colloidal)." Vairagi is referring to Particulate Silver when he says real silver. Once again you are confused by the Mumbo Jumbo BS & Hype used by CS marketing reps to drive us all crazy. You are confusing marketing hype with research. The term " Colloidal Silver " includes both ionic silver and particulate silver. There is no such thing as "True Colloidal Silver ," just another marketing hype term used to confuse the consumer. Please study the REAL facts about the Metalloproteins that transport Silver Ions through the digestive tract: http://www.thesilveredge.com/metalloproteins.shtml Study this testimonial by Esstee: http://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=2332314#i What do your buddies at Colloids say about this? Study these research reports: Dr. Slavin at SilverFacts.Com http://www.silverfacts.com/powerful.pdf Too many to count, Google, “ionic silver research” Your buddies at the Colloidal Group conveniently failed to study Metalloproteins. Isn't that strange? Or is it simply more Marketing HYPE & BS? Grizz Add To Favorites! Your reply: Reply   CK   FCK   TinyMCE

    • Re: Research Evidence VS Business Opinion    MrCuddly  25h

      "Once again you are confused by the Mumbo Jumbo BS & Hype used by CS marketing reps to drive us all crazy. You are confusing marketing hype with research. The term " Colloidal Silver " includes both ionic silver and particulate silver. There is no such thing as "True Colloidal Silver ," just another marketing hype term used to confuse the consumer." No, this is why I said "preponderately colloidal silver" allowing that ionic is also in the mix. The reason I (and marketers) use the words "true colloidal silver" is since ionic silver is so often mistakenly referred to as colloidal silver in common usage. Here's one of many articles about the inferiority of protein based colloidal silver vs usual water suspended colloidal silver. http://www.silver-colloids.com/Pubs/protein.html Add To Favorites! Your reply: Reply   CK   FCK   TinyMCE

      • Re: Research Evidence VS Business Opinion    grizz  25h

        We are not discussing "Protein Silver" and your link does not work anyway: http://www.silver-colloids.com/Pubs/protein.html%3C/p%3E So don't even bring up "Protein Silver" You are conveniently avoiding the subject of Metalloproteins that carry ionic silver through the digestive tract. http://www.thesilveredge.com/metalloproteins.shtml And you are conveniently avoiding this vital testimonial: http://www.curezone.org/forums/fm.asp?i=2332314#i which proves that Particulate Silver (AKA "True Colloidal") is mostly worthless. What is your opinion of these two specific links? Grizz Add To Favorites! Your reply: Reply   CK   FCK   TinyMCE

      • Seems Like a Minor Thing but Propaganda is a Fire That...    vairagi  6h

        The con: Hey There----- The mark: Huh?------ Why, why, why? Oh yeah, love of money, OK. just keep repeating ------. (Ignore the arguments), just keep repeating------ Propaganda: information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular cause or point of view. That's a slippery bar of soap you are holding onto. Sure word meanings change because of general usage (why did they(some youngster) steal my beloved '#' (the sign for number) and convince everyone that it is now to be called, "hashtag" humph. But of course, that was not to be deceptive as your continued word usage and postings are. Even if many are duped, caught unaware, the behind the scenes machinations seem pretty obvious to us. (huh? what are you talking about? This is very confusing. The web site says--repeat after me---) Its like in the past, with population wide, propagandic undertakings, tho this one is far smaller in comparison, where entire generations of masses of people have had falshoods or half truths so repeated to them that eventually they cant even consider the evidence refuting the lie because their ability to analyse the topic has been compartmented out of their normal discursive considering in the mattter (and when healthy discernent has been compartmentalized out of our normal discursive activity we are lost to many lies and manipulations, evidenced by all historic and present inhumane behavior based on invalidated assumptions held onto emotionally rather than by understanding). from The Cambridge Dictionary: Colloid: a mixture in which particles of one substance are held inside another substance from Wikipedia: Colloidal:A colloid, in chemistry, is a mixture in which one substance of microscopically dispersed insoluble particles is suspended throughout another substance. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIgjujAI6eE Add To Favorites! Your reply: Reply   CK   FCK   TinyMCE

        • Re: Seems Like a Minor Thing but Propaganda is a Fire ...    grizz  6h

          Hitler said that if a big LIE were repeated often enough, the gullible population would believe it. This is especially true on the subject of Colloidal Silver . Grizz Add To Favorites! Your reply: Reply   CK   FCK   TinyMCE