One thing that's very confusing are CS generators manufacturers claims about particle size. Low current, larger electrodes etc make for smaller particle sizes.
But these machines are ionic silver makers, meaning no particle size to speak of. Are these claims just for the 5%-15% particles that are also generated or agglomerated? And does that really make a significantly difference?
Trying to figure out if it's really worth a couple hundred extra which it would be if the end product was noticeably more potent. Especially for internal use.
Where's Quixote when we need him..lol
I love the results where the laser beam can barely be seen in a dark room for 20ppm silver, where 20ppm is confirmed by a calibrated Hanna PWM Meter compared to a known 20ppm solution of CS.
The CS I make is clear @about 10PPM according to my TDS meter shows a solid laser light in a dark room.
I also take it sublingual for internal directly into the blood. I don't know why anybody wouldn't want it to enter damaged cells.
"The correct question is how much of the solution is Ionic (AG+) or simply particles with no charge (AG)."
Ionic silver are not complete atoms of silver and therefore are not silver particles. The 1% to 10% of colloidal particles in the mix are the only effective particles.
"I've also read that binding ionic silver into particulate clumps isn't the same as Colloidal Silver particles - and less effective because of the charge."
>>> This only happens when you run too much current through the solution, causing large silver clumps to break off of your silver wire. The laser beam shines BRIGHTLY in a lighted room, and the color turns yellow or even brown. We call this Silver MUD.
Actually I meant the remaining particles in the mix of our ionic silver batches. And perhaps also the ionic silver that uses a reducing agent to form what they call "colloidal silver". Some say it's regular colloidal silver, others call it "protein colloidal silver" (with huge particles and can actually spread bacteria), or agglomerations of ionic silver.
Yes confusing as H*ll and made worse by manufactures creating most of the informational content that is insanely contradictory.
Yes it's hard to penetrate this wacky science. But I've read from the majority of sources that ionic silver doesn't consist of particles but is more like electrolysis. Anywere from 1%-15% of the batch is actual colloidal silver also generated in the process.
Then again some say it's not really colloidal silver but agglomerated ionic silver - that's almost completely ineffective once it enters the body.
When people say PPM they're referring to parts per million not particles per million. Parts of what?
I'm starting to think a particle accelerator would be easier to buy.
Very nice explanation! Thanks. So all this business about particle size is a non issue because ions are all nano sized in any case. I guess the original SilverGen was all I needed. Auto shutoff, constant current, polarity reversing, PPM selector, water testing, and never a yellow batch. Just supply the distilled water and mason jars.
One thing is that the proteins having receptor sites for the metal AG+ ions mainly carry them thru our system not particularly into any cell structure (thats another topic) and they only need proximity to gram negative organisms to cause the antipathogenic activity to commence. In considering gram positve organisms (like MRSA) affects (where membrane distruction wouldnt be activated), the mechanism appears to be by entering the organism and disrupting it's internal functioning, clearly infered from the Czech study published in the prestigious Journal of Physical Chemistry B in 2006, and often refered to in CS literature, “…silver particles with a narrow size distribution with an average size of 25 nm, which showed high antimicrobial and bactericidal activity against Gram-positive and Gram-negative bacteria, including highly multi-resistant strains such as methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA). The study further demonstrated that very low concentrations of silver could be utilized to destroy MRSA, as long as the silver particles were very small, averaging 25 nm.” And again referencing that the smaller the AG+ atomic particle groupings, the more effective the pathogenic activity on this particular types of organisms.
Our cells uses of the noble metals in ionic form is also specific and common to certain cells/organs.
As previously mentioned these ion receiving structures (metalloproteins) are a normal(very common) part of our body and specificly our nutrition system serving the needs of our bodies by transporting the Pos or Neg (Cation or Anion) charged (any element) atoms thru our systems for use as required.
Toxic heavy metal particles, nutritious and antipathogenic noble metal particles and regularly considered minerals in ionic states(cause our body systems are designed to use strictly ion forms not "inorganic" or uncharged forms (tho everything is charged but lets not get into that), and (atomic) particles of regular dietary foods which we might not consider as being either negatively or positivily charged (ions) but they are.(the reason why we express out a large % of the non ionic minerals we ingest as supplements, is that we are relying on our digestive system to process them into ionic states(which is adequate but not seriously efficient). Ideally we are recieving the mineral ions we require from our food.
And this is why the whole unstable ion, salt interface is either a faulty unresearched extrapolation or an attempt to discount easily made Silver Water so only the HVDC product or LVDC CS reduced back to elemental AG is considered valuable. It has unwittingly been picked up and believed by some LVDC makers, who in error advise converting the AG+ back to AG, against all research and biological knowledge.
(so I think it stems from one source's output multiplying and tainting the vernacular literature in numerous web sites and influencing even well meaning CS generator sellers to think ideas not evidenced, ie,
"True Colloidal" Silver (made up name) and Ionic Colloidal Silver, are two different things.
That only metallic/elemental AG will work for internal use, claiming against all research literature that ionic silver, AG+, is only good for topical use. (weve had this discussion I know but since Mr C is bringing it up)
As mentioned if we are to believe (as some CS web sites claim as fact, but no science research shows) that the CS's activating principle(ion exchange) found by research scientists to be anion activity against gram positive pathogen's membranes and their internal systems, is seriously compromised by our internal systems, then by that fraudulent thinking, our entire nutritive supply system is equally endangered, because many of our bodies required nutritive items are and or become ions so as to be used properly and snyc up with receptor sites on proteins just as ions of AG do.
Call them unstable if you will, call them in danger if you will, of salt, or HCL, but ions of all sorts(non toxic, toxic and neutral, foods minerals ect) exist for lengths of time in many environments till utilized for their specific qualities.
Our extra and intercellular fluids are full of ions unimpaired by an environmentally activated change of polarity using the previously mentioned tecnique(this is exactingly similar to how some pathogens hide from our immune detecting ability in our bodies also). Sea water also is a good example of salt and water with lots of unchanging ions.
on another point.
A teaspoon of 10ppm CS has more silver atoms than our body has cells, so the smaller the atomic element AG+ particles, the more antibiotic ability. Agglomeration(LVDC but using too high of an amperage or no movement) and flocculation(HVDC) are the main divisive results of making CS. (but with either traits the product can still work, just not as well as nano or less sized AG+ CS, according to present research).
Stirring/movement avoids particle grouping and especially if generated with bubbling, (which is only considered negative by the same, as mentioned, propagandized unscientific messaging), since it not only creates nascent oxygen(as another available oxidiser) but by that it, (O), prevents the potentially nano or less than nano sized atom groups in LVDC CS atom particles from grouping into 20nm to 100 nm or larger particles.
The ingrained and continued CS misunderstandings and errors, by CS web site owners and serious and casual users, is found in the describing and use of elemental colloidal silver as being "particulate" silver. Not only thinking that that is an accurate description, when all colloidal silvers (all matter for that matter) are particulates, but that the only point in doing so is to create some illusion by using that name as opposed to its real descriptive label. And of course using the term 'True Colloidal' is the same. A fabricated term created to confuse, mislead, to influence away from truth.(We can hope the source was only ignorant instead of being selfserving or malicious).
These false notions came from somewhere and have been furthered and perpetuated by web sites and their readers, unwittingly.
It doesn't seem to be much of a contest if one position is relying on research papers and the other on what is found on a web site (our own opinion only goes in credibility as far as our own personal space. Ha! stabbed myself in the eye with that one).
While Griz did exaggerate when he described AG's antibiotic reality, it was probably for emphasis since the logic of his statement has some bearing, in comparison of the choices between a product costing multi dollars an oz vs a product costing pennies an oz,(and where one works right away and the other needs intended but not assured conversion).
His main point was influenced by current science research understanding that only AG+ have pathogenic ability, so why buy or make AG water at all, especially since one study found in their testing that the Ag wasn't producing many AG+'s (probably becasue of agglomeration or flocculation.)
Most posters commenting on this topic have continually mentioned, to assuage the sensitivities of the elemental silver water users, that since successes have been had using it, there's no real argument, excepting as to the why and how either works, so proper delination instead of erroneous upplaying and downplaying would cease. (I think as I said, Griz was excited since after working on this topic so seriously for a while, he was/is getting to the real truth of the matter.)
Some might claim that elemental silver is a better choice for certain problems or situations, erroneously thinking it "lasts longer", but the study by Altman doesn't bear that out. (Its one of the older studies on AG elimination).
Furthermore regular stable AG atoms aren't 'quickly'(meaning not at all in our body, and only slowly as tarnish in atmospheric environs) affected by Oxygen, but rather by the acids.
The 'O' introduced to CS by aeration doesn't directly assist the AG+ atoms antibiotic activity, the 'O'(O2 for a short debatable length of time) has oxidative abilities of it's own which itself causes ion exchange w gram positive membranes it interfaces with in our system, like with the popular oxidizer 'O3'.
As mentioned the inclusion of 'O' is to stave off agglom and flocc from forming by separating the particles, be they elemental or ionic.(probably be a good idea for the HVDC productions,(the color), but they might have to back down on what they have been promoting so officiously for some time now.
Web sites that promote CS conceptions and processing errors dont have to be in on the illusion of the original sources intentions to muddy the view. Just as most all anti CS, or pro vaccination MDs don't, they only have to be caught up in the situation enough to be promoting it, to have some avenue, either a web site or as a professional speaking to lay persons (the friendly town MD who unknowingly spreads what all his colleagues and respected advisors are telling him is the correct position on a topic that is currently controversial because, because hmmmmm ?????????) but none of them have the motivation(or time perhaps) to follow thru with a proper analysis.
Of course duh, (couldn't avoid that one), the simple CS web sites that promote converting ionic to natural form arent doing it to make more money. And they aren't using a false and misleading wording description (True C) to garner them anything(unless they are doing it out of some egoicly driven superior attitude need(probably more close to the point), and then the joke is on them.
No the source of the original misinformation is the recipient of the rewards for the monetary driven reasoning.
Like the Pharmaceutical Industries financial investors (far away from the pubic eye and powerful enough to mind cuff those in charge and hold the curtain up, blocking the real world from blinkered self important minions) driving the misinformation. Rather than Ad agencies or simple research techs or even high paid managers, people who oftentimes really need to be in with such a big organization because of egoic stress, all of these people are too beholden to their own simple needs to question and so they spread the company line(like a soldier in a war who knows little if any of the reason why, but still pushes ahead at the front, and that's who most of the opposite side will associate with as being evil when they are just dupes to the ploy run by people out of view.(Eisenhower was never in combat annnd I would be surprised if any of the HVDC or conversion promoters were ever seriously sick enough themselves to need something as far reaching as Colloidal Silver)