Re Griz's idea of www.thesilveredge.com S Barwick as arbiter (I was surprized at this) in the discussion of differences in understandings on C Silver and it's protocols:
In G's "The Truth About---" link, there are some less important and some more important statements in opposition to understandings being presently discussed:
in http://www.truecolloidalsilverfacts.com/ Barwick states:
on the meaning and use of 'Colloidal' and Particle:"
"In spite of what's been said on the internet, both 'metallic" (or non-ionic) silver-- and ionic silver-- are (by definition), "colloidal silver".--they're both composed of tiny particles of silver suspended homogenously and indefinitely in a liquid solution."
"The-- difference-- is that the 'metallic' colloidal silver is composed of (electricaly balanced atoms), while -- ionic colloidal silver is composed positively-charged (unbalanced) atoms -- ."
"--both forms –- have been universally called "colloidal silver" for the past 100-plus years, --."
"Both have powerful antimicrobial qualities.---, but there's no way for (non-ionic/'metallic') to kill pathogens except to convert to the ionic form--. It has to shed silver ions -----, or it's otherwise benign."
"-- ALL reputable experts agree that silver ions are the biologically active, infection-fighting "specie" of silver, while (non-ionic/'metal') silver particles have almost no infection-fighting qualities of their own except to the extent that they shed silver ions when they (experience deconstruction or oxidation from) coming into contact with acidic bodily fluids or highly-oxygenated body tissues. --- a far slower and less effective process than simply ingesting silver ions."
on Silver's pathogenic actions:
"--gram positive bacteria carry a negative electrical charge on their cell walls thanks to the presence of teichoic acids linked to either the eptidoglycan or to the underlying plasma membrane. These teichoic acids are negatively charged because of presence of phosphate in their structure".
"And gram negative bacteria have an outer covering of phospholipids and lipopolysaccharides, with the lipopolysaccharides imparting a strongly negative charge to the surface of the bacterial cell wall".
"--(with) the positive electrical charge on silver ions, a very strong affinity exists between them and gram positive and gram negative forms of bacteria. In short, the silver ions are strongly attracted to bacteria. But metallic silver does not (have) this same electrical (unbalanced) charge attraction,----. So --- (there is no attraction) , to bind with and destroy pathogens like ionic silver has. It can only destroy pathogens to the extent that it converts to the ionic form of silver in the human body, which generally happens on a very gradual basis in the presence of acidic bodily fluids or highly oxygenated tissues – a much slower and less effective process".
on stomach acids:
"--when you ingest ionic silver, your body will immediately begin to produce metalloproteins such as metallothionein to (protect) those silver ions from the (protein deconstructing) chemical environment of the stomach, and (while traversing) the deeper reaches of the body".
"--when you ingest metallic silver, the same things happens, but far more slowly. As the metallic silver particles come into contact with acidic bodily fluids beginning in the GI tract, (deconstruction occurs) and the metal particles begin shedding silver ions--. And it's at that point the body will start producing the metalloproteins needed to (protect) those silver ions---".
"When using-- ionic-- colloidal silver, the metalloprotein process starts immediately, because it's the silver ion that stimulates the body to produce metalloproteins--".
"-- when using-- metallic-- colloidal silver, the process is far more gradual due to the fact that (the deconstructing)-- takes --(time before)--- (producing) silver ions--."
"This is why some clinical studies have demonstrated that it takes significantly longer for metallic silver to kill pathogens than it does for ionic silver." see: http://www.thesilveredge.com/ionicvspart.shtml#.V7RD_Lv6tT1
on the need to convert ionic w heat or additives:
"If--- people were correct in their assertions--- that ionic silver "can't work in the human body (and would need to be converted ) ---that ions can’t exist in the presence of stomach acid for "more than a few seconds" (as rebuttled above), then it follows that human body could not absorb and utilize minerals from food plants at all, for the simple reason nature has those plants convert all minerals-- to the ionic form."
"---the--- claim that ionic silver is not effective inside the human body unless you first add a reducing agent to it, --- in order to turn it into "true colloidal silver" (i.e., metallic silver) before drinking it (is false)."
"--- to convert ionic silver back into metallic silver before drinking it, knowing that your body is just going to have to convert it back to ionic silver for it to be effective against pathogens, ( is counterproductive)."
Thanks for the info. I am quite familiar with iodine and Dr. Brownstein.
Researching and writing about alternative cancer treatments as well as the dangers and ineffectiveness of mainstream treatments is what got me started writing about natural health to begin with. Ultimately, I developed my own suggested comprehensive anti-cancer protocol some years ago, which I have regularly revised and updated. We estimate has been 95% plus successful against stage I and II cancers and 85% successful against stage III and IV cancers.
In that protocol, here is what I have to say about iodine:
"Iodine is an absolute must for anyone fighting cancer, especially breast cancer. Many people have beaten cancer with iodine supplementation alone and it is a supremely powerful item to include in any cancer-fighting protocol."
On this issue, I think we are in pretty much complete agreement.
I also believe that colloidal silver is very effective against cancer, particularly when it is used with other powerful cancer fighters. I have had numerous people tell me that they have had better results when they add colloidal silver to their protocol.
Here is the section of my website where I have gathered most of the articles I have written as well as articles by my staff of writers. I think you will like it.
There are also links there to doctors reports, studies and testimonials.
BTW, I agree that we need to try to get to the truth about colloidal and ionic silver as best we can - but I am not sure how we will do that. So many companies tout their product as somehow being uniquely superior and they have no end of mostly bogus hype and self-serving tests that they point to. If somehow we could find multiple identical people with identical health issues then we could see how the various products stack up both objectively and subjectively - but of course that is impossible to do.
The good news I guess it that most silver solutions are effective and safe (except those made chemically and those which use animal protein to artificially suspend the particles) - from the solution you make at home with a cheap 9 volt battery setup to the more sophisticated home generators to the commercial solutions. Some are more effective (in some instances considerably more effective) and safer than others. Quantifying that is indeed quite a challenge.
FYI, one of my upcoming articles will be on the truth about the very rare blue skin condition Argyria and how it CAN be reversed.
P.S. Perhaps you remember some of the battles I had here and in the Cancer Debate forum with the character who almost hijacked CZ for a couple of years or so - Hveragerthi. Our duels were pretty legendary. Sadly, they were also more polarizing than I would have liked. H was convinced that he alone had the answers on a number of subjects, or at least he tried to convince people he did. When it came to cancer, he maintained that viruses were the primary cause of cancer. They aren't. Lots of things have been put forward as the primary causes on cancer. The true primary cause of cancer is toxins. Period. Aacccck - don't get me started. I'll be here for hours and hours. : )
Comments on John's rebuttal and analysis:
Trying to think this thru. Of importance as I see it, is really only concerning the oxidation of the highly ionic produced variety and its life span in our system.
Tho if we realize that it is only the Ions of either variety that produce the wanted effects, the debate may quickly be shelved on account of the Metalloprotein's role. So ultimately the Q is whether either is distinctly superior and whether either has any unwanted outcomes.
Of course the Tyndall Effect will reveal particles of numerous sizes in a Colloidal Silver, be they ionic or elemental, as long as they are insoluably dispersed. Oxides, of course, would not produce this effect.
I question whether Ions are going to be switching their valence states, back and forth as described, in my understanding of how ions are produced and become re-balanced in nature, even if they become quickly unstable thru the electrolysis, at an end point I think we would either have an ionic colloid or we would not, and in the idea that the waters actions on the ions would be unavoidable, per se, dosn't bear witness to further investigation as to the Ions fleeting existence.
see: Tens photography of sample. The clear product vs tinted and subsequent to makings use as an acceleratedly successful antibiotic.
The Ionic Colloid we produce with the "Smallest ratio of amps to volts" LVDC generator, tirckles off of the silver rods, producing less than nm sized particles and also has "no" precipitation after multiple months of storage
The noticeable positive effects we experience from using the clear, seemingly, apparantly non elemental, LVDC generated IS is also germaine. (especially when I compare the outcomes from all the different retail CS purchases and the two other CS generators I have used, but of course this is subjective and not really a valid point in the discussion)
I can only assume that John is either unfamiliar with, disbelieving of, or choosing to ignoring the posted science of the Mettaloprotein function, whereby all ions are protected from the stomachs deconstructing environment (thus even toxic heavy metal ions are assimilated. note: Silver is a noble metal), thus rendering any needful choice between targets determining which CS should be ingested to be specious.
Here's one of Barwick's pages on the difference.